You think it could have been someone else? Maybe a Force using a Psycho Wand to resurrect DF for his own selfish purposes? It could be that. Flowen was just corrupted by DF after DF war released.
You think it could have been someone else? Maybe a Force using a Psycho Wand to resurrect DF for his own selfish purposes? It could be that. Flowen was just corrupted by DF after DF war released.
I was just reading through a lot of the stuff on Camineet and those statments can't be more true. Are you familiar with his argument that Noah and Lutz are two completly different people? His arguments do tend to be pretty rediculous and his insistance that the JP and US games should be treated as two totally seperate games and that all the translation problems were 100% deliberate and intentional is just obsurd.On 2003-09-14 06:44, _Sinue_ wrote:
I tend not to believe in those theories. Most of them are written by Mike Ripplinger who, if any of you know him, is a self styled Rush Limbaugh. He tends to write his opinion as fact and to be damned with anyone who doesn't agree. He openly refuses to incorperate new data gleaned by translations of the original JP games.. taking the stance that the JP PS series is a completely different set of games from the US versions. The PS series is filled with bad translations, misconceptions, and outright plotline errors. However, he views these errors as "correct" since they were not changed in the US re-release of the games in the Phantasy Star Collection for the GBA. "Obviously, that's how they wanted the story to be told to US audiences", when completely dismissing the fact that the games were left largely unchanged from their original for the sake of prosperity... not to mention to save a few bucks in the process.
On the whole, I find many of Mikes theories to be nothing more than his opinion passed off as facts... and like his buddy Rush, he has his flocking of ditto-heads who are incapable of thinking for themselves. Just remember that there are plenty of other PS-Scholars out there with different views on the events in the game. Just because their ideas aren't posted on a website - doesn't mean that they're invalidated or less than Mike's in the least.
Anyone who knew a bit about games back in those days would know that one of the biggest tabboos was religeon. Noah most likely went through into PSI simply because it may have slipped under the radar, or it wasn't such a major concern for Sega at the time. Back in the 8-bit days, the religeon in games wasn't that big of a deal but it did emerge more in the 16-bit days and latere, once games became much more popular and therefore, "influential" on kids. I highly doubt Sega USA had much faith in the PS series back in those days as well.
When PSII came over here the game was a much bigger undertaking. Not only was it going to be much more commercial but it was also much more expesive to produce. Back at that time PSII was a 6 meg cart, which at the time was pretty big and expesive to make. I would think ST wouldn't want to risk bringing a relgeous based name into the game could get it black balled by people. Changing the name, not the character itself, to Lutz was a much easier solution to this problem.
He also notes some points where Rune changes the tenses he speakes in, from first to third person. This can also be acredited to poor translations. I don't speak japanese, but I do know that one of the taboos of spoken japanese is referering to your self as "I". Many of the phrasings of the original game are completly different from what we got here, simply because you can't translate japanese into english literally, everything must first be inturprited. Unless you are working side by side with the original writers you do not know what there original intentions of many of the statments and phrases were meant to be. This is like making a book into a movie. A vast majority of the details and most of the time, major plot points and details, are changed or completly lost once you translate the written word to the moving picture.
Sorry for going a bit off topic but I was curious as to what you guys thought about the Noah/Lutz debate. Back to the original topic, shouldn't there be a fourth seal for Ryucross/Rykros? Originaly it was one star with 4 points to make the seal. The sun, Moto/Motovia/Motobia, Palm/Palma/Parma, Dezo/Dezolis/Dezoris and Ryucross/Rykros. Even though the orbit of Ryucross/Rykros is abnormal and takes it out of the star system it would still be a part of the seal. Perhaps this is why the seal weakens every 1000 years. When Ryucross/Rykros is at is pinaccle, the farthest distance from the star system it is during its orbit, the seal weakens. This would stand to make sence, as being so far away would "tug" at the seal. The only problem I really see with this is that with the loss of Palm/Palma/Parma, an integral part of the seal, wouldn't it most likely fail? If not completely, would the window for the Darkness to get out be much larger?
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Guntz348 on 2003-09-15 14:13 ]</font>
I meant to say been a member of the forum the longest, could be wrong but, I just signed up when I got PSO for the DC and just every now and then have PSOW attacks where I come here heaps, then leave again then come back bla bla bla!On 2003-09-15 01:17, _Sinue_ wrote:
Naw.. not by a long shot Spider. If yer birthdate in yer profile is right, you're only 17 years old. Me, Onna, and SNK have you beat. I'm 24, Onna is like 30, and SNK is like 32.
But hey.. you're only as old as you feel right? If that's true.. then I should have been dead a week ago. -_-'
As anyone who has played PS2 would know that Palma was destroyed when Mother Brain crashed the prison Satellite Gaira into it thus destroying it. Not only did she destroy the center of algos technology but also took out 1/4th of the seal. this is why you get to fight 3 forms of dark force in PS4. i think that Noah/Lutz are two different people. Theres a 1000 year gap between PS1 to PS2 and who knows how Noah already is in the duration of PS1. And Rykros comes around when the seal does weaken so it can show the chosen protectors what they are meant to do. Only in PS4 do you get to explore Rykros. You have to collect 5 rings to show that you are suitable for protectors. After that you go and get Chaz's final weapon Elsydeon(AKA Elysion in PSO terms). This is also were you get the most powerful technique for Chaz, Megid. And no this is isnt the flying purple fart cloud everyone is familiar with instead this is what it really is a spell powered by hate and anger. What a good way to vent your anger when your pissed, into a destructive spell thats almost like numerous lv30 rafoies going off repeatedly.
Throw more questions toward your knowledgable ones as I am also one of them (only 14 just to let you know)
and i've been here even longer than youOn 2003-09-15 18:59, Spider wrote:
On 2003-09-15 01:17, _Sinue_ wrote:
Naw.. not by a long shot Spider. If yer birthdate in yer profile is right, you're only 17 years old. Me, Onna, and SNK have you beat. I'm 24, Onna is like 30, and SNK is like 32.
But hey.. you're only as old as you feel right? If that's true.. then I should have been dead a week ago. -_-'
I meant to say been a member of the forum the longest, could be wrong but, I just signed up when I got PSO for the DC and just every now and then have PSOW attacks where I come here heaps, then leave again then come back bla bla bla!
i just don't post often
i know i should post more
I really should play the PS games one of these years. I've been playing PSIV a bit, but I have a somewhat buggy ROM that likes to freeze up going into battles, which makes it a bit of a hassle to level and such... -.- That, and it seems a bit backwards to play the 4th game in the series first... xx Then again, I read the newspaper from back to front. >P
Heh, I'm surprised Onna hasn't harped on the Mods for not adding a Wren avatar amidst the other PSIV avatars that got added. ;-P
Or maybe she and everyone else is just glad I'm using the SD Calus sprite as my avatar now instead of repeating my SD Elly sprite twice every post... >P
PSUJP: Nai Calus, M. B. 176 FI 20 | Elly, F. N. 42 FT 5 Requiescat in pace.
The whole Noah-Lutz debate isn't really my speciality as Phantasy Star 1 is probably my least played game in the series, and the one I know the least about. However, I do know that in the original Japaneese version (and MegaDrive re-release) that Noah's name is Lutz. It was changed TO Noah for the US release. My view has always been that they are the same person from PS1 to PS2. However the translation team that worked on PSII was probably a different group of people from the PSI teams. If they did any research into PSI, they probably looked at the original Japaneese. Thus, they translated it as the original Lutz rather than the US PSI's Noah. That's just my personal conjecture though.. I'm not sure. I see Lutz as being the same person from PS1 to PS2. He was kept in Cryosleep to preserve him for the time when Dark Force would once again break from the seal. However, something went wrong after PSII. Weither they couldn't stop the aging process completely.. or something happened in the mean-time which killed Lutz.. I'm not sure. Seems to be a good springboard for some Fanfiction though. Point is, Rune from PSIV is NOT Lutz. The original Lutz died, and he transfered his thoughts and memories onto his chosen successor. That successor then passed on Lutz's memories and experience (as well as his own) onto the next chosen "Lutz". This happened for quite some time until you meet the current Lutz, Rune, in PSIV.
My question is.. if the Espers are guardians of Algo - protecting it against the Profound Darkness by aiding the chosen of each generation in defeating the Dark Falz's.. then what is their purpose after the Profound Darkness is defeated? Their organization goes on.. you can see this is the case as there's a picture of Kyra sometime in the future praying.. and Rune himself leaves Chaz and Rika to "Gain more knowladge", and hone his skills which will be passed onto the next Lutz. Perhaps they go on as protectors, awaiting the next unknown threat rather than preparing for the next attack by Dark Force? The ending does leave room for another sequel with the line "The eons-old struggle between Light and Dark has ended, and now the
curtain rises on a new age..." This could imply a era of peace and properity.. or it could signify a new threat looming on the horizion. We may never know.. as I could see Sega making a Prequel to PSI as their next offline Phantasy Star RPG rather than a sequel to PS4. After all.. the Profound Darkness has been around for Eons.. and the PS series only spans the timeframe of 3,000 years.
As for Rykros, I thought the same thing for awhile.. but that's not the case. The seal only consists of 3 planets. Rykros is only meant as a warning star. However, it's never appeared in any PS game before it. The protectors kind of fall into their destiny of fighting Dark Force, rather than being guided there by Rykros. Only in PSIV do you learn of it's existance, and only in PSIV does it serve an important purpose. Of course, only in PSIV do you fight the Profound Darkness. It could be that it was at one time used as a beakon to warn of Dark Force's comming.. but the secret was lost to the ages. Think of it's warnings as a secondary objective.. with it's true purpose being to await the time when it's aid is needed and to make sure the guardians were prepared enough to fight the final battle.
Also think of it like this.. were Rykros a part of the seal.. it would become a target of the Profound Darkness. The knowladge and protection it provides is too valuable to risk loosing.. as you know the Profound Darkness would attempt to destory it first and foremost to ensure that nothing could stand in it's way. By making Rykros's orbit highly eliptical, it was hidden from everyone - even the Earthmen who had studdied the system and it's inhabitants for several hundred years. In this way, the Profound Darkness (trapped behind the seal) would not know of it's existance and only focus on destorying the seal - rather than destorying the one planet which contained the power to allow the guardians to defeat him. Perhaps Rykros was hidden all this time, even from the guardians, to prevent Dark Force and the Profound Darkness from finding out about it.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: _Sinue_ on 2003-09-15 23:49 ]</font>
I havn't beaten PSVI, I don't know if I've played half of it. I actually havn't beaten a single PS game, PSO, I have beaten.On 2003-09-15 22:01, _Sinue_ wrote:
The whole Noah-Lutz debate isn't really my speciality as Phantasy Star 1 is probably my least played game in the series, and the one I know the least about. However, I do know that in the original Japaneese version (and MegaDrive re-release) that Noah's name is Lutz. It was changed TO Noah for the US release. My view has always been that they are the same person from PS1 to PS2. However the translation team that worked on PSII was probably a different group of people from the PSI teams. If they did any research into PSI, they probably looked at the original Japaneese. Thus, they translated it as the original Lutz rather than the US PSI's Noah. That's just my personal conjecture though.. I'm not sure. I see Lutz as being the same person from PS1 to PS2. He was kept in Cryosleep to preserve him for the time when Dark Force would once again break from the seal. However, something went wrong after PSII. Weither they couldn't stop the aging process completely.. or something happened in the mean-time which killed Lutz.. I'm not sure. Seems to be a good springboard for some Fanfiction though. Point is, Rune from PSIV is NOT Lutz. The original Lutz died, and he transfered his thoughts and memories onto his chosen successor. That successor then passed on Lutz's memories and experience (as well as his own) onto the next chosen "Lutz". This happened for quite some time until you meet the current Lutz, Rune, in PSIV.
My question is.. if the Espers are guardians of Algo - protecting it against the Profound Darkness by aiding the chosen of each generation in defeating the Dark Falz's.. then what is their purpose after the Profound Darkness is defeated?
But, are you sure about the passing of memories and experience, because I read, somewhere, long ago, that Rune was a reincarnation of the esper Noah/Lutz.
And the second thing, why would anybody be able to defeat the Profound Darkness? Maybe it's immortal, or it would never leave itself open for an attack.
There must be a reason for sealing it instead of destroying it.
Possibly. I've always taken that line to mean that Flowen was laying at the bottom of the Bio-waste disposal shaft - linked to Dark Falz telepathically though the D-Cellular effects on his body. Because he was, in part, one-in-the-same as Dark Falz.. he could see events as they transpired through Dark Falz's eyes. He could see Dark Falz as he rose from the ground and caused the explosion which destoryed everyone - except for Red Ring Rico, which as you see by reading further into your quote, that Dark Falz was targeting to be his host."...Born from the abyss..."
...
...
...
"...Crew from Pioneer 1..."
...
...
"...I could see them being engulfed..."
...
"...I could see it all from here..."
*... [radio noise]
"...I was already overpowered..."
"..."
"...Searching for..."
...
"...It saw my thoughts..."
...
"Something to serve as a focus..."
...
"...It wanted to evolve..." - OnnaWren
Even after all this time, the plot line of PSO still confuses me a bit. Dark Falz was released prior to Flowen entering the Ruins. No-where in his messages does Flowen reveal that he or his team found a strange box and opened it.. only that he saw "IT" rising from an abyss as a formless entity that looked as though it was cycling through the stages of life and death. Also, I believe it's in "Knowing one's Heart", but I recall a line saying that something had infected Pioneer1's computers and turned the robots against their masters and against Pioneer2. The military was sent down to the mines to find out what was going on.. and there they found the ruins. If Dark Falz was responsible for the machines going haywire.. then he must have already been released by the time Flowen discovered the ruins. So who released Dark Force first?
Yeah, I'm pretty positive that Rune is not Lutz in anything but memory. Rune points this out several times in the game that he only carries the memories and experiences of the original Lutz, and it was passed on to him from someone who was also not Lutz. In a way, Rune is Lutz reincarnated.. but it's more appropriate to think of Lutz and Rune as being merged together into one being. In a way, Lutz is still living and acting through Rune - but Rune is also his own person, with his own personality, and his own perspective.But, are you sure about the passing of memories and experience, because I read, somewhere, long ago, that Rune was a reincarnation of the esper Noah/Lutz.
I've wrestled with this issue myself. I simply don't understand how 5 morals can defeat a god - even with devine weapons and protection. Nevertheless, that's what happened. It wasn't just Chaz who struck the moral blow with a simple weapon. The Elysdion is infused with the souls and the power of all the guardians who ever fought Dark Force before him. So in essence, the entire cast of PSI and PSII were striking out against the Profound Darkness everytime Chaz swung.And the second thing, why would anybody be able to defeat the Profound Darkness? Maybe it's immortal, or it would never leave itself open for an attack. There must be a reason for sealing, not destorying it.
As for why the Great Light simply sealed the Profound Darkness away rather than destorying it.. I don't know. Even Chaz asks this question in PSIV. He doesn't feel it's his responsiblity to fight this thing, while the Great Light is off doing whatever in some distant galaxy like some cosmic dead-beat dad. As to how they could even HIT a god with a sword.. the Rings of Algo protected the guardians from the majority of the PD's power. Perhaps the PD could only kill them by pummeling them with physical attacks (which doesn't actually happen - he uses magic and beam attacks - even Megid) and while he was in physical form to attack them, they could attack.
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