Bouncer Class Discussion

[ReverseSeraf]

Bio boots will most likely require T-ATK too. Dio Ares Tisdale are more than likely going to be the best available boots for any build for a while. X Hunter (13-20% damage buff vs X family) can be stronger if you're willing to min/max with gearswaps but currently only a good darker option is available (and requires 640 T-ATK). A mech pair exists but has dreadful ATK values so you'd need a crit/craft build and high T-ATK to equip them, meaning it's not a viable option for S-ATK builds. Unless SEGA gives us some Ancient Oath boots soon I don't see Dio Ares Tisdale being topped. Even Bio boots will be in a weird spot since I doubt SEGA have the foresight to give them a potential that boosts both attack and tech JA damage.

I was under the impression that bio weapons required DEF, which is not that much of an obstacle to overcome.

But yes, the potential will probably be funky.

[Terrence]

What about Elemental Stance? I'm working on testing my own build out. It'll probably be shitty but I want to try anyway.

I used to be TEcher/BOuncer for the EWH+ES combo. But since I realized I could use Techniques with the BOuncer, I'm now FIghter/BOuncer 70/45 and I have to say ES is a really cool boost. I play DB only so I have to use many weapons with different elements (I cannot change it like JB users do) but my damage output is really higher ! (I use THIS Skill Tree...)

[Chumara]

Afaik the Fighter stance apply depending on which side you are standing while attacking. If you stay at the from of the mob you're attack use front power even if you are hitting the tail. If you stay behind the enemy it counts as back power even if you hit the face of a mob. Or at least that's what I understand from Google translated Englipanese.

This sounds right, but at the same time I've hit the back legs of Dark Ragne with Wise Stance active and had the same values no matter what angle I hit from. But when it comes to enemies with only one targettable spot (like a dagan), then the direction you're facing relative to it comes into play. The skills are kinda wonky IMO. Hell I think even Zeshrayda's legs are both considered rear even if you're attacking from the front, I can't be positive though, that guy moves around far too much.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Fi stances only consider where you are in relation to the target's facing. Where you hit does not matter.

[ReverseSeraf]

This sounds right, but at the same time I've hit the back legs of Dark Ragne with Wise Stance active and had the same values no matter what angle I hit from. But when it comes to enemies with only one targettable spot (like a dagan), then the direction you're facing relative to it comes into play. The skills are kinda wonky IMO. Hell I think even Zeshrayda's legs are both considered rear even if you're attacking from the front, I can't be positive though, that guy moves around far too much.

Fi stances only consider where you are in relation to the target's facing. Where you hit does not matter.

Manin's right. A good example would be the Gu Wonda: they have multiple hitboxes. If you're attacking the body in the front, Brave Stance applies. If you're attacking the core which is behind, but you're still in the front, Brave Stance will still apply.

There's exceptions to this, however (i.e. Dark Falz Elder, Big Vardha, etc.)

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Brave Stance applies to Zesh if you're in the front, but once he turtles up, Wise Stance applies. Because the dividing line determining front/back is no longer vertical, but horizontal once he falls down.

[XrosBlader821]

I've been wondering. How does the weapon element work with craft mastery?
If I have a 1000 S-Atk weapon and a 50% element the weapon would have 1500 S-Atk against mobs weak to that element right? What if I have a crafted 1000 S-Atk weapon + craft mastery?
would the S-atk be 1600 or 1650 if I hit mobs weak to that element?

[Omega-z]

@XrosBlader821 - the difference is 16%~17%(if you round) between ES and BS. ES+ESU - 1.2*1.1 = 1.32% v.s BS+BSU - 1.35*1.1 = 1.485%.

@everyone - It's higher but harder to work with when you compare it to mobs. The Break Stance skill is solely for bosses only and only works on break-able parts and also those broken area's too as long as they don't change to weak spots. With DB's this is Ok'ish damage since the blades would be hitting those spots for more damage. But that damage is also random based on the nature of the blades, which would be hitting other parts as well that don't get that bonus. This bonus also doesn't work on weak spot's so making it less appealing. For Elemental Stance you don't have this problem and it works on all mobs, Weak spots, and does bonus damage to all parts on a boss. The catch is that it has to be the right element to get this damage.

I would change BS to a Large Enemy Boost/Stance (it's a Passive and not an Active skill) that can get that 1.485% or 1.35% in fact, when you attack large foe's. It would combine with Elemental Stance for more damage when attacking harder/larger target's.

This would give BO a 1.78% (with the 1.35% add-on) boost at minimum, but only on large mob/boss target's. This would also compete with the other classes that are in/around that range and give BO it's own thing.

[XrosBlader821]

@XrosBlader821 - the difference is 16%~17%(if you round) between ES and BS. ES+ESU - 1.2*1.1 = 1.32% v.s BS+BSU - 1.35*1.1 = 1.485%.

Please use the quote function >.<
I was confused over which post from me you meant.
But yeah you are right. A little oversight from my side.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I would change BS to a Large Enemy Boost/Stance (it's a Passive and not an Active skill) that can get that 1.485% or 1.35% in fact, when you attack large foe's. It would combine with Elemental Stance for more damage when attacking harder/larger target's.

This would give BO a 1.78% (with the 1.35% add-on) boost at minimum, but only on large mob/boss target's. This would also compete with the other classes that are in/around that range and give BO it's own thing.

I'd rather just have 10% extra damage on non-breakable targets on break stance, with an extra 10% to non-breakeable targets on the "up" at this point as suggested earlier. The current elemental/break stance options as they are now for BO are amazingly stupid.

[Omega-z]

@XrosBlader821 - Ah, sorry about not quoting.

@Maninbluejumpsuit - I think 10% is still to low of a boost, But hey I'll take anything that would help boost that damage regardless of what it is.