My Ranger is going the unique route

[Wolfgrey666]

Well those on mumbler(the same mumbler in the community chat section) already know what i am attempting to work on and see to the end of, so i thought i would share it with the people here at pso-world.

What i am trying to do is find the viability of the traps in the ranger skill tree.Atm the moment i have put 2 into tool mastery and 3 into upper trap.And of course i have my req 3 points of ability up before that. Here is what i found using the Crystal Worm's(the cave's first boss before the vol dragon) weakspots as the base for my damage.One upper trap explodes 3 times then is gone.You can carry 10.

At level 14 i had less skill points of course invested and only the base 1 in tool mastery, 1 in upper trap, and one into upper trap custom. One upper trap would do 3 bursts of damage doing over 300 damage.10 traps is over 10000 damage.

I leveled to 15 and put one point into it.I was doing over 400 damage with each burst.That is with 10 traps over 12000 damage at the least.

I am lvl 19 now and with my current skill setup i do over 700 damage per burst.That is 21000 damage with 10 traps. I was in a party but we had 3 worms spawn.I still had 2 traps left after helping kill 2 of the worms.

This is serious damage.Without Weak Bullet.

However on vol dragon at 17 i think, i was doing about 400 damage a burst to his face(his weakpoint?) so it varies on the monster. However this lack of higher damage may be due to my lack more levels of ability on my mag or more points into ability up.That and i started investing into other things.If i had kept at my route with traps i may very well had much more damage on his face.

I am working hard to work on my skill tree to find out the extent of the trap power.

But certainly do not put traps off as weak. Try imagining Weak Bullet alongside upper traps with the kind of damage i am putting out right now.

However poison works well in this game so i am EAGER to test out poison traps and how they work.

But i might keep this skill tree as weak bullet and upper trap only while buying another to work on poison and other effects.A status ranger so to speak, while the former is based on high burst damage.

Anyway what are your thoughts fine folks and fellow rangers?

I will continue to post my progress as i go and test other bosses at my level ranges by request.I am by no means someone who can gather the data for a FAQ but at least i can give you guys a general idea of their capabilities.

[Sp-24]

This is pretty interesting so far, very nice job. Try doing the emergency quest where Dark Ragne is the boss, or find one in the other quest and see how much damage does that trap do when it's stunned. I'll be looking forward to more info on this, since yes, traps do look completely useless when they sit at the ends of the skill tree's branches.

As for Poison Trap, You'll need to compare it to a weapon that has a Posion ability. I assume that Poison Trap has a 100% activation rate, so it should be somewhat nice already, but it still may be useless if you can get the same damage and duration from your weapon without spending any skill points.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

iirc i tested poison trap and against bosses, it does not have a 100% proc rate.

traps are a pain in the asshole, but i give you kudos for trying to do something different. i messed with them enough in closed beta to realize, imo, traps are shit and a waste of time/meseta. but there's a -slim- chance that me and everybody else has just been messing up, and you could be the one to actually use them correctly (this sounds sarcastic but i'm being serious.)

btw, as a counter argument, you may show impressive big numbers, but what's your dps?

how long does it take to scrounge around on the ground to set a trap? and what about the times the boss completely avoids the trap simply because he doesn't go close to it, so the trap just explodes while the boss isn't anywhere close to it due to it's short lifespan?

in retrospect, while you're trying to setup traps, other rangers are constantly shooting weakpoints and turning on weakbullet which helps the team out immensely. with weak bullet on hard mode dragon horn, my sonic arrow hits for roughly 800 per hit at lvl 3 sword gear charge. that's 2400 damage. i can fire off 3 of these x3hit sonic arrows within roughly 2 seconds total. 3x2400 = 7200 within 2 seconds.

the biggest flaw with traps is their DPS. if you can find some crazy way to circumvent this then you're good, but you basically can't.

it just takes too long to setup traps for them to be effective in many players eyes.

now, if they were able to be instantly set up, and had maybe 50% longer lifespan, i'd probably make my ranger full trap tree+weakbullet.

[Wolfgrey666]

This is pretty interesting so far, very nice job. Try doing the emergency quest where Dark Ragne is the boss, or find one in the other quest and see how much damage does that trap do when it's stunned. I'll be looking forward to more info on this, since yes, traps do look completely useless when they sit at the ends of the skill tree's branches.

As for Poison Trap, You'll need to compare it to a weapon that has a Posion ability. I assume that Poison Trap has a 100% activation rate, so it should be somewhat nice already, but it still may be useless if you can get the same damage and duration from your weapon without spending any skill points.

Well i did fight a Dark Ragne during the city quest at about 16 or so(might be 17), i did about 400-500 damage. But he moved quite abit and was hard to keep track of my numbers.

As for the poison trap "mastery" it ups the possibility of being poisoned with each skill point. I am not sure how effective it will be at lvl 1 but that is also why i am going to get this when i am lvl 40 with a new skill tree.That way i can test it on all bosses at each lvl of mastery.

I don't mind screwing myself over for data.I love obscure abilities people wouldn't think to use, especially when they turn out to be ALOT more effective than people think.

What i would like is to team up with a person who specs in weak bullet and use the two together(weak bullet and my upper traps) to see what the damage will be.I am very curious.

In fact if anyone here would like to help me, that would be awesome.Just if you already have weak bullet anyway.

[Wolfgrey666]

iirc i tested poison trap and against bosses, it does not have a 100% proc rate.

traps are a pain in the asshole, but i give you kudos for trying to do something different. i messed with them enough in closed beta to realize, imo, traps are shit and a waste of time/meseta. but there's a -slim- chance that me and everybody else has just been messing up, and you could be the one to actually use them correctly (this sounds sarcastic but i'm being serious.)

Well speaking it has been destroying bosses at my level and 2000 meseta is chump change, i am not worried about it being a waste of time.

I am dedicated to the cause.Besides if you simply think of it was something that you use alongside your already given skills on your guns, it is worth it.

Though i think the quick thinking to use them in conjunction with other skills or combos will make or break them.

I am happy to sacrifice my skill tree to find out.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

also wolfgrey, is it easy to hit weakbullet spots on weakspots of bosses with traps? or can you only hit weakbullet spots on boss limbs such as feet or hands or main body with traps?

the whole reason weakbullet is so strong is because it multiplies with a weakspot already on the boss. if you need a weak bullet to be wasted and put on a part of a boss that isn't even a weakspot, in order for your traps to hit it, that would be incredibly counterproductive to all of your other teammates. they would be able to do far more damage if the weakbullet was shot at a weakpoint on a boss. much more damage than say at max, two of your traps (weak bullet life span is probably only long enough for two traps to be set off on it at best. realistically i see only setting one trap off on a weak spot most of the time)

i suppose you do have some hope however. launchers in closed beta/open beta were incredibly broken. divine launcher i think only cost 30pp, it's splash reach was huge (including it's regular attack) and damage was high. so launchers got nerfed pretty significantly.

perhaps going with that flow, traps were buffed. because the general consensus (everybody, really,) was that traps reeeeeeally sucked and have little or no use other than for fun.

and in accordance with what i was saying earlier, you should time how long it takes for you to set off say, 5 traps, to strengthen your argument on the damage potential of traps. but even then, you have to modify that result, because it's not like you'll be firing all traps off the instant you set them, and there will be some cases where your trap has completely missed.

and seeing how traps are burst damage, even missing one trap takes a huge chunk out of your DPS.

[Wolfgrey666]

also wolfgrey, is it easy to hit weakbullet spots on weakspots of bosses with traps? or can you only hit weakbullet spots on boss limbs such as feet or hands or main body with traps?

the whole reason weakbullet is so strong is because it multiplies with a weakspot already on the boss. if you need a weak bullet to be wasted and put on a part of a boss that isn't even a weakspot, in order for your traps to hit it, that would be incredibly counterproductive to all of your other teammates. they would be able to do far more damage if the weakbullet was shot at a weakpoint on a boss. much more damage than say at max, two of your traps (weak bullet life span is probably only long enough for two traps to be set off on it at best. realistically i see only setting one trap off on a weak spot most of the time)

It is pretty easy to hit weak spots with traps.At least from use on the dark ragna,worm,vol dragon, and ant lion. You just simply predict their movement pattern in a 2 second space in order to make sure you can still hit that spot consistently.Anyone who has played monster hunter for a decent while or similar games should have no problem utilizing it.

It takes about .75 of a second to place a trap then it has about a half second delay to be armed.Then you can detonate it instantly. Traps also have a gauge that depletes on it's own over time if you don't detonate it.It lasts for a decent amount of time allowing you to put one down before hand and triggering it at the right time.

If it helps when the vol dragon's tail got broken i could easily lay down and detonate about 4-6 traps depending before he could move about again.Well as long as i get there fast enough from having shot the tail to make him fall over in the first place.

[Geistritter]

the whole reason weakbullet is so strong is because it multiplies with a weakspot already on the boss. if you need a weak bullet to be wasted and put on a part of a boss that isn't even a weakspot, in order for your traps to hit it, that would be incredibly counterproductive to all of your other teammates. they would be able to do far more damage if the weakbullet was shot at a weakpoint on a boss. much more damage than say at max, two of your traps (weak bullet life span is probably only long enough for two traps to be set off on it at best. realistically i see only setting one trap off on a weak spot most of the time)

Hitting the existing weakpoint isn't always the best place to Weak Shot an enemy; they're often difficult to hit at all times, especially for Hunters, and one can sometimes find themselves better off going for another, more accessible spot. Besides, you increase your drops off of breaking enemy parts, which aren't always weak points either.

As for the overall discussion, the current data for Upper Trap doesn't justify the skill point usage; even at the level you're at, the damage is questionable. I'd be interested to see how it pans out at high levels, but right now I see no reason to take them.

I find poison traps similarly without use; while it can be infuriatingly expensive, one can put Poison onto a weapon for a similar effect, and the results can be quite impressive while also allowing one to distribute their skill points elsewhere.

Someone had to experiment, so I tip the proverbial hat to you for biting the bullet, but I'm just as convinced as before that traps are wasted skill points at this time.

[Wolfgrey666]

Hitting the existing weakpoint isn't always the best place to Weak Shot an enemy; they're often difficult to hit at all times, especially for Hunters, and one can sometimes find themselves better off going for another, more accessible spot. Besides, you increase your drops off of breaking enemy parts, which aren't always weak points either.

As for the overall discussion, the current data for Upper Trap doesn't justify the skill point usage; even at the level you're at, the damage is questionable. I'd be interested to see how it pans out at high levels, but right now I see no reason to take them.

I find poison traps similarly without use; while it can be infuriatingly expensive, one can put Poison onto a weapon for a similar effect, and the results can be quite impressive while also allowing one to distribute their skill points elsewhere.

Someone had to experiment, so I tip the proverbial hat to you for biting the bullet, but I'm just as convinced as before that traps are wasted skill points at this time.

No worries i will stick with it.I actually am enjoying traps quite a lot.I wish i could bring more.

Thanks for the tip of the hat.Even if it ends up being a goose chase, it is a very fun goose chase that i don't mind doing. At worst i can pay to respec or simply buy another skill tree.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

Hitting the existing weakpoint isn't always the best place to Weak Shot an enemy; they're often difficult to hit at all times, especially for Hunters, and one can sometimes find themselves better off going for another, more accessible spot. Besides, you increase your drops off of breaking enemy parts, which aren't always weak points either.

i can 50/50 agree/disagree with you. if a hunter is experienced and is playing properly, any part of a boss mob should be able to be hit with ease. i like to practice soloing bosses and it's rather easy to reach and hit boss weak spots with either sword or partisan. it is admittedly difficult to hit them with wired lance, however most hunters switch to partisan or sword when fighting a boss.

examples of bosses and why their weak points are easy to hit. add "the hunter must guard/dodge accordingly in order to stay close to the weakpoint" to almost all of them:

rock bear: face
dark ragne: back of head (this sounds difficult but it's not. if you're facing him and he's aggro'd on to you, he'll generally try to melee you. guard it/dodge underneath him, and jump> use sword's risng edge/partisan trick weave to hit weakspot. it looks like it shouldn't hit the back of his head but it does with ease and little aiming)
vol dragon: horn, easily explainable enough. sometimes he'll do attacks but you just have to just guard them or dodge to the side of his head and use trick rave/rising edge on his horns.
mammoth: all of his attacks are easy reads / guards. they also don't really hit you if you wish to dodge behind him. hug his side and jump> use trick rave/risng edge and you'll hit it's weak spot with ease
panther: face is weakspot. self explantory

so when you say it's difficult for hunters to hit at all times, you're probably referring to the fact that weakspots are generally in the front of the boss, where bosses also tend to attack the most. so at that point, it's just a question of the hunter's experience with the boss.

but i absolutely agree with you on it not being always a wise idea to weakbullet a weakspot. particularly, with the accordian dragon and dark ragne. if done correctly dark ragne can be pulled into a "collapsed state" loop, if a ranger targets one leg, then the other, then the other, etc. and if you break the accordian dragon's tail, it unveils a weakspot that can always be hit.

but your argument on hunters and how its difficult for them to continuously attack weakspots is only true if the hunter is inexperienced.