Hit things with techs.Originally Posted by TaigaUC
Yes that sucks.
Hit things with techs.
Yes that sucks.
Ship 02
Ziyon
62/30/42/58/55/75/75/55
Barantsion is just a one time attack though, it's not something that can be spammed repeatedly like other classes have. Plus, it also seems pretty rare to even be able to charge those compound techs during a run when playing as Techer, as melee attacks don't fill the gauge. I'd hardly say that makes wands good for bossing. Feels more like a useless gimmick to me.
Hitting things with techs is the only way, that's actually why I didn't mention combination techs when I said wand isn't that good at bossing. x:
Not really seeing how /Bo solves any problems that /Ra doesn't do as well.
Poor mobbing: Gravity Bomb, higher damage output means mobs die faster
GM nerf: Heals 50 per hit on stuff like Bullet Squall, Megiverse isn't really needed, Gu/Ra does more damage without Perfect Keeper than Gu/Bo does with it anyway
PP problems: Killing Bonus, Tactics Trap, higher damage means better mileage out of PP usage
/Ra gives you
-An 82% multiplier for hitting weak points, and a 141% multiplier with Standing Snipe on top.
-Weak Bullet, for tanky mob/boss killing and supporting MPA damage output
-Killing Bonus and Tactics Trap, for PP sustain.
-Launchers and Gravity Bomb, for mobbing utility.
What does Bouncer give that's competitive enough to justify using it? It has utility, but Ranger has similar utility and far superior damage. It's the same issue with Fo/Te and Fo/Br actually, since you bring that up. Fo/Te has damage and utility, while Fo/Br just has damage (and the damage is worse in a lot of ways). Fo/Br is not viable at all compared to Fo/Te, because there's very little it does better and very little of it is actually worth ditching /Te for. From what you've shown, and from what you've said, I don't see how this isn't the same case for Gu/Ra and Gu/Bo.
That aside, JBs and wands are honestly not very good at bossing, although they're not the worst weapons either. As impressive as Vinto looks, the damage output is not notably higher than some of Fo/Te's regular tech usage, and without composites, Force is one of the worse bossing classes. Going off my own numbers, Vinto is about 300-325K range on a weak point. Ragrants does roughly 83K every use (332K in four uses, or about 1.5-2s). Counting the time it takes to charge JB Gear back again, they're roughly on par, Fo/Te may even be a little better. And although wand composites are strong, they're still a good 40-50% weaker (estimating) than what Fo/Te can output. You're only looking at about 500-600K on a weak point.
Compared to other classes, these options just aren't very good.
Only techs. Composite techs fill based on damage done and scales on enemy level. Against level 80 enemies, around 725K damage must be done with a cap of 29K per hit (so 25 hits minimum) in order to charge a composite tech.
Wouldn't Techer need to Gimegid some Kuronite heads though? Gunner usually bosses with one Chain, Braver with one KCF, a single compound Tech mixed with some Banish combos shouldn't be too farfetched.
There's a Gu/Ra Kuron run on Nico. The player uses Grav Bomb but they spend more time positioning for it. It's considerably more effort. Granted, they also happened to do it in 6:51, but with much better gear and without NPCs so spawn density was lower. Par time seems to be 11-13mins, usually without NPCs and with 12* and above so I feel like I'm on the OK side using a crafted 10*.
Don't really feel like going through the rest because knowing you, this will go on forever.
Last edited by Selphea; Aug 14, 2015 at 11:30 PM.
The whole conversation just now was about classes using other weapons for certain aspects of the game My argument was that it's ok if Mech guns aren't great at mobbing if they're good at bossing because if melee te/br can use bows to make up for their lack of bossing ability with wands, and Ra/Br or Br/Ra can use launchers to get around bows being pretty bad at mobbing, then I don't see why Mech guns have to be amazing at it. Damage aside of course. The real problem is that, with the existence of stuff like banish, they fall behind in bossing too.
EDIT: reworded it.
Last edited by Kondibon; Aug 14, 2015 at 11:19 PM.
Is this what you're talking about? This is obviously a casual playing, you know. They weren't even aiming their Gravity Bombs, and they wasted a lot of time goofing around changing camera angles, waiting on cooldowns, and picking up drops. Their damage on weak points was even lower than your own. This is obviously not a serious demonstration of anything, just goofing around. Compare how their boss run went with this. The nico player took 1:55. Compare that with 14s.
It'd make a ton more sense to demonstrate how you played Gu/Ra in Kuronia if you play both Gu/Bo and Gu/Ra, so that player skill was not a factor.
btw, KCF only does a couple hundred K on weak points, and composite techs for Te/Br are weaker than BA combos if Weak Stance can't proc on both elements.
6:51, which that one wasn't. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26878265
Hmm... so if the trees get updated will we be getting another skill reset pass?
Should be finding out in the livestream tomorrow.
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