BR and GU buffs happening?

[Kondibon]

I'm kinda coming from the perspective that, I used to feel Gu needed better mobbing too, but that was back when it basically only had 3 PAs worth using. Once S-roll got nerfed I actually became more content with their mobbing even though other classes can do it better (you're right though mech guns aren't the worst at it).

I feel now that no one weapon needs to be good at everything, and from a purely conceptual standpoint mech guns are great bossing weapons and decent mobbing weapon, they just can't keep up in the bossing department with things like banish, which honestly is a pretty ridiculous PA anyway. I just kinda like the idea of classes being encouraged to use subclass weapons more, especially now that there's so many decent multiclass options.

Most of the changes I want for Gu have to do more with streamlining it and making more of the skills it has viable rather than just more damage, but I think everyone feels that way.

[Selphea]

I have to ask, why Gu/Bo?

If you noticed, /Bo solves quite a few major complaints brought up.

Poor mobbing -> Zondeel
GM was nerfed, Perfect Keeper hard to maintain -> Megiverse
TMG Mastery + APPR not enough -> Deband PP

I run both /Bo and /Ra really. /Ra is close to double damage on Sat Aim after Standing Snipe kicks in, but can't heal in the air. It's similar to Fo/Te vs Fo/Br, utility vs damage.

Re: Wands, they have Barantsion now. Hardly bad bossing. And there's the weapon specialist classes like Katana, Jet Boots and Dual Blades that are more rounded.

Btw your second quote should be attributed to Superia, not me.

The cars seemed trivial on Gu/Ra. The most problematic mob to me was that dollhouse with the lolipop. It could seemingly just choose not to expose its weakpoints and take insignificant damage for a high duration if the RNG was right, but there may be some strategy to deal with it that I do not know about.

Poison trap or Poison TMGs + Bullet Squall to proc with law of large numbers seems to work.

[Kondibon]

If you noticed, /Bo solves quite a few major complaints brought up.

Poor mobbing -> Zondeel
GM was nerfed, Perfect Keeper hard to maintain -> Megiverse
TMG Mastery + APPR not enough -> Deband PP

I run both /Bo and /Ra really. /Ra is close to double damage on Sat Aim after Standing Snipe kicks in, but can't heal in the air. It's similar to Fo/Te vs Fo/Br, utility vs damage.

I was just curious mostly. It seems like an odd choice for a place with so many zondeel immune mobs and where you can avoid most damage by flying around with bullet squall though.

Re: Wands, they have Barantsion now. Hardly bad bossing. And there's the weapon specialist classes like Katana, Jet Boots and Dual Blades that are more rounded.

I don't think Berenstain (I'm calling it that now) is enough to really compete with some of the crazy stuff you can pull off with WB. Especially if the boss isn't weak to it, but eh, I'll concede for now.

And you're right, Katana, Jet boots, and Dual Blades ARE well rounded... I'm pretty sure the only think Katana has over Mech guns for mobbing is bigger AoEs though. Jet boots don't really excel at anything, and DBs being good at mobbing is an anomaly as far as I'm concerned.

I think my problem is I don't like the idea of mech guns turning into another class that throws around massive damage from across the room like Fo and Ra do as a solution to its mobbing problems, but it feels like that's what people expect.

Btw your second quote should be attributed to Superia, not me.

My bad. 8U

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I'm pretty sure the only think Katana has over Mech guns for mobbing is bigger AoEs though.

And the sheer damage.

[Kondibon]

EDIT: (putting this on top cause it's not directed at anyone) I just realized why gunner bothers me. It's the only class that's almost entirely defined by it's signature weapon. Br and Bo have a similar problem but it's downplayed with them because they have two unique weapons each, whereas gunner only has one, the other weapon is shared by ranger who has more skills and utilities for it than Gu does anyway. Think about how often people take Hu, Fi, and te for their skill trees more than their weapons. I'd really like that to be an option for all the classes but Gu has so much stuff that's Mech gun centric, even if it's not mech gun exclusive. People keep talking about how good or bad Gu is, when what they're really talking about is how good or bad mech guns are. I barely see anyone talking about rifle, or even taking it into consideration, and apparently Gunslash doesn't count for some reason.

And the sheer damage.

Fair enough. I've already said what I want to say about gunner's damage though. I think it should be doing more. I don't think all of it should be loaded on to S-roll (or chain either for that matter). That's about it.

[Selphea]

I was just curious mostly. It seems like an odd choice for a place with so many zondeel immune mobs and where you can avoid most damage by flying around with bullet squall though.

That's actually where Deband PP comes in - fast PP regen in the air. The effect isn't really noticeable unless you look for it, but you'll notice I worry about Deband uptime more than Shifta, especially when low on PP.

I don't think Berenstain (I'm calling it that now) is enough to really compete with some of the crazy stuff you can pull off with WB. Especially if the boss isn't weak to it, but eh, I'll concede for now.

If the boss isn't weak then use Fomelgion

And you're right, Katana, Jet boots, and Dual Blades ARE well rounded... I'm pretty sure the only think Katana has over Mech guns for mobbing is bigger AoEs though. Jet boots don't really excel at anything, and DBs being good at mobbing is an anomaly as far as I'm concerned.

Kazan and Combat Finish are pretty huge. Of course, headshot Bullet Squall is too, but that's a smaller AoE so it needs suction.

I think my problem is I don't like the idea of mech guns turning into another class that throws around massive damage from across the room like Fo and Ra do as a solution to its mobbing problems, but it feels like that's what people expect.

Mine is that they're machineguns but are they even used like guns should be used? How many quick-draw, spray-type attacks do they even have, and why do I need to do some pointless flip kick that hits the air just to get some actual bullets out?

[Kondibon]

Mine is that they're machineguns but are they even used like guns should be used? How many quick-draw, spray-type attacks do they even have, and why do I need to do some pointless flip kick that hits the air just to get some actual bullets out?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GunKata

[Selphea]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GunKata

The trope is Gun Fu, not Gun Kata. Gun Kata is more about the bang than the pow

[TaigaUC]

Didn't read the whole thread, but is there a way to build combination tech meter as Wand melee?

[Kondibon]

The trope is Gun Fu, not Gun Kata. Gun Kata is more about the bang than the pow

You are correct. I didn't see the related link, my bad. I thought it felt off. Either way I'm rather fond of gunner's style since it's distinct. This is coming from someone who's bitter about teching weapons being so similar though. :/