PSU Elitest Justifications? Come here all ye budget guardians! share your stories!

[relentless]

So, as a fact Hiero did not do something "wrong".
You basically said it's okay to ask people to ease up a bit, which indeed did not happen as a result.
But how does it still make Hiero's reaction invalid assuming you aren't okay in particular about how he reacted with a boot?
And you are jumping to a conclusion there by pretending to know how he reacted, even if it was similar to what you said.
Also, everyone thinks differently on different responses, it's normal.
Some people actually react obnoxious to proper wording and reasoning and you will come off as some smartass as a result so yeah.

You don't need to be elitist to react like that.

Well... you basically move your fingers to play and end up annoying people with constant TD'ing (example), and you move your mouth to sing to end up with the same result.
There may be a slight difference but the annoyance can be of same level.
I think it's kinda an opinion thing, but I personally don't care WHAT is annoying me, the fact is that it annoys me so much I could boot that person.
If you differ those things, you would also have to differ the things individually imo.
Like if he is whistling or singing... or using TD or using other knockaways.

[hunterseifer]

Elitist-Control, rule, or domination by a group or class. As it applies to Hieros post the apt word being control. Sure it's acceptable to ask someone to ease up a bit, but we know that's not what happened. I'm betting his warning consisted of I vote we kick this TD guy, "you have been removed by the party leader".

Okay sure, kicking people who displease you(palette, play style, whatever) in your party is your noble right. Convincing the party leader to boot, singling people out with votes, coercing people to play your way, that's just bullying. He didn't do what I told him so it's his fault he got booted, classic elitist justification. Never your fault is it, lets just blame the victim!

Your right booting is there for a reason, In my 3 years on PSU I have booted 2 people in my parties. One kid who wouldn't stop singing into his mic, and another guy who thought a continues stream of off-color jokes was acceptable dialog. Neither of these had anything to do with equipment, play style, or disobeying my rules. There is a difference between booting someone for playing the game, and booting them for behavior not relevant to gaming.

First off, your first paragraph you accuse him of being a liar, you dont have any proof it just seems you want to cause trouble.Anyway, I dont think he meant it that way, he said he gave warnings to the guy, didnt listen so he did a vote. Which is honestly the best way to do it, majority rules! if the player is annoying the entire party I'd do a vote, and if voted yes then kick.It has nothing to do with 'bullying anyone.'

I'm a team player, and if someone is ruining the team's fun and/or how effective the team plays of course im going to say something, if someone asks me to do something to help the team, I'd do it. If you play any game thats team based, if someone doesnt play to help the team out and does his own thing and gets killed, doesnt help the team, ruins the fun and no one will wanna play with that person, and that has nothing to do with elitism, thats just everyones preference.

[Hiero_Glyph]

So you only boot people who don't play the way you want them to, and your new "tactic" is to publicly humiliate them first. You truly are the standard for elitist justifications!

"I have the right to do whatever I want", "the other day I actually got the host of the party to boot a player" awesome, you sound like so much fun to play with.

Oh please, you know as well as I do that a player that spams Tornado Dance is not helping the party in 99% of all situations. I would expect the same treatment if I tried to level Mayalee Prism in a party. The difference is that I respect other players and level certain difficult skills in private or when the situation is appropriate.

Also, as for calling a vote, would you rather I just ask the host to boot them without having the others in the party vote as well? It is a fair method that could allow the player in question to remain in the party. If the rest of the party doesn't agree with that player's actions then they will more than likely be removed. Don't single me out becaue the player in question made a choice about how they play and got removed from the party for their actions.

PSU is all about choices. When you are the host you can make all the choices for yourself. When you are playing in somone else's party then you have to live by their choices. I merely found a way to suggest things to the host where the entire party gets a say in the matter. If you really think my intention was to humiliate the player, we both know I could have done so much more without much effort.

[Cracka_J]

So you only boot people who don't play the way you want them to, and your new "tactic" is to publicly humiliate them first. You truly are the standard for elitist justifications!

Sooooo missing the point.

Hiero plays the game a certain way. If he creates a game (it seems) he will either announce or make a comment on specific rules he plays by. If you choose to play the game a different way (your way), and they are different from his set rules, you are viable to be booted from a vote system he uses.

Why is that so hard to understand. If you make your own game and request no speed running in a comment, or in game, and someone joins your party and begins obliterating mobs and td'ing to reach mobs faster, they are clearly going against your set rules and I'd feel you'd have reason to remove them.

If you don't want to play his way, you don't have to join his party. Go make your own or join one that more suits your playstyle. Why waste your time and others time when you could rather go find some people that play how you do.

[Keilyn]

Elitist-Control has another name for it....Aristocracy. The entire mentality that those who are in self-defined "Elitist Classes" should rule and tell people who fall in lower classes what to do. Economic Manipulation, Coercion, the belief that such a class is above social rule and beyond the system of law and order are very common among such classes.

Acceptable things in my views:

1) If you write a comment as part of the party, it should be observed that the room creator has something going on.

2) If one enters a party with a no comment on it...It doesnt mean something is not going on. People do a lot of room stops and forget to reset their comments and room names.

3) Don't put the party up for a vote to kick a player when it is your job as leader to read the situation and actually kick the player.....If you wait for a public vote to come in, you are creating the potential for a fight to break out....

...Now you have two duties....Kicking the player and calming the party down.

You should be able to read the situation long before having to ask everyone if its ok for you to be a leader and kick.

Coercion goes two ways...

If three people agree on playing a certain way for their benefit and a fourth comes in who falls outside of such way AND gets in the way...then what it actually means is that in order to maintain compatibility the other three have to adjust (or even change) their way in order to meet the needs of the fourth.

In short it is three people passively being coerced by a person who comes in, ignores everyone and passively demonstrates "my way or the highway" because they believe "Its just a game" and people should have no consideration or civility for others.

[Hiero_Glyph]

Elitist-Control has another name for it....Aristocracy. The entire mentality that those who are in self-defined "Elitist Classes" should rule and tell people who fall in lower classes what to do. Economic Manipulation, Coercion, the belief that such a class is above social rule and beyond the system of law and order are very common among such classes.

Acceptable things in my views:

1) If you write a comment as part of the party, it should be observed that the room creator has something going on.

2) If one enters a party with a no comment on it...It doesnt mean something is not going on. People do a lot of room stops and forget to reset their comments and room names.

3) Don't put the party up for a vote to kick a player when it is your job as leader to read the situation and actually kick the player.....If you wait for a public vote to come in, you are creating the potential for a fight to break out....

...Now you have two duties....Kicking the player and calming the party down.

You should be able to read the situation long before having to ask everyone if its ok for you to be a leader and kick.

Coercion goes two ways...

If three people agree on playing a certain way for their benefit and a fourth comes in who falls outside of such way AND gets in the way...then what it actually means is that in order to maintain compatibility the other three have to adjust (or even change) their way in order to meet the needs of the fourth.

In short it is three people passively being coerced by a person who comes in, ignores everyone and passively demonstrates "my way or the highway" because they believe "Its just a game" and people should have no consideration or civility for others.

Is the bolded part a joke?

Anyway, it is not the responsilibity of the party leader to keep the party calm or maintain compatibility. It is up to the party leader to play PSU however they want and decide if a player is doing something that they, as an individual, do not like. If the rest of the party expresses their views against a given player then the host can decide if they agree with the others or not. Again, it is their choice and they are not forced to do anything.

I have to admit that assigning a full list of rules to how you play PSU is a new form of elitist behavior. I doubt that I would ever go so far as I can only speak for myself. If you agree with me then great. If you do not agree with me then we can simply go our separate ways. Again, it is all about choosing how you want to play PSU, yet every player has that choice to make for themselves. Calling a vote simply forces the issue but it does not make the choice for them.

[Maelstrom 180]

Well that figures, i have him on ignore in here but just in quotes i can see Hiero is still being an Ego inflated individual. Okay time to show posts for now. Hmmm okay theres your problem. Hiero somehow you think i dont respect you and you have good equipment. Which is false, i respect you, though to a lowering degree every post you make against MY points. I have not called you any names up till not and even though i called you an Ego Inflated Individual, does that mean i dont respect you? Nope, i respect you and i hear your opinions but your opinions are very negative and are insulting to my moral character. I am losing respect for you because you continue to attack my points after i repeatedly requested you to drop it, and then ignored you. That seems very disrespectful of you. Also respecting someone doesnt mean i have to like them. Take for example the American president, i respect the man, and he does have the makings to be a very charismatic leader, but i disagree on all of his "changes" he has been shoving down the public's throats. For that i hate him. And because you seem to feel your opinion is more valid than mine then just keep voising those opinions but leave me out of them. I listened to all your opinions but just as you felt you disagreed with mine, i disagree with yours so learn to know when someone dissagrees and when someone ignores your points. Rather than accepting anything ive said or atleast acknowledging anything i said as somthing you agreed with you attacked what you didnt like me saying. Oh and bringing in a conversation from another topic to enact some Damaging converstation to create a negative look of keilyn's person. Even if it were true people have bad days but it is not part of this discussion. Face it that you cant stand to look bad or have people disagree with you. Try seeing someone else's point of view for a minute....and stop just attacking it. I was hoping to find some other players and see what they use, share experiances, maybe play together or learn some new pieces of equipment that could benefit either myself or another player. But once again i say it, im done, your opinions may hold value to you but when your opinions are about how my opinions are not good in some way, then im sure you can see why i dislike you and why i dont want to talk to you. so keep doing whatever, just leave me out of it for the second time.

[Delete]

It's weird how this is turning into a "Party leader can/cannot boot if he wants to" thread. : )



To clear it up (or try anyway), Party Leader can boot you for whatever reason he/she wants to. Is it right? No, but that's just how some people are = /

Oh please, you know as well as I do that a player that spams Tornado Dance is not helping the party in 99% of all situations.

Even though you speak the truth there, it is a PA in the game and the players should not get booted for something that they are just using because they like. Why not watch who you invite (not aimed at you Hiero) so this situation won't happen to begin with.

[Hiero_Glyph]

I'm going to break apart your post since paragraphs are not something you understand how to use. I hope that you do not mind.

Well that figures, i have him on ignore in here but just in quotes i can see Hiero is still being an Ego inflated individual. Okay time to show posts for now. Hmmm okay theres your problem. Hiero somehow you think i dont respect you and you have good equipment. Which is false, i respect you, though to a lowering degree every post you make against MY points. I have not called you any names up till not and even though i called you an Ego Inflated Individual, does that mean i dont respect you? Nope, i respect you and i hear your opinions but your opinions are very negative and are insulting to my moral character. I am losing respect for you because you continue to attack my points after i repeatedly requested you to drop it, and then ignored you. That seems very disrespectful of you.

Just becuase you disagree with my points does not mean that they are invalid in the least. If you want to post your own points then by all means go ahead. Also, asking someone to stop posting because you disagree with them will never work. I have a right to state my opinion just as you have a right to state your own opinion. Apparently ignoring my opinion is the only recourse that you have at this time however. Also, stating the same opinion multiple times should not make you lose more respect for a person as they have not swayed on their opinion. Basically you are just more frustrated with me and cannot handle the fact that the discussion continued without you due to having me on ignore.

Take note that I have strong opinions that I support, it is not my ego. If you want to label/insult me then at least understand what I am inflating. I will agree with the negative part however, as labeling others as elitist is wrong and my views are negative by comparison to topic of this thread. A difference of opinion is never disrespectful however; it is simply another view on the same issue. If you take that as disrespectful then over half of the world's population must be disrespectful to you as well as they come from a variety of moral, political and religious backgrounds that differ from yours. Curious, but do you choose to ignore them as well?

Also respecting someone doesnt mean i have to like them. Take for example the American president, i respect the man, and he does have the makings to be a very charismatic leader, but i disagree on all of his "changes" he has been shoving down the public's throats. For that i hate him.

Hate is such a strong emotion. Normally hatred is due to a lack of understanding (e.g. I hate you becaue you are different and I do not understand why). Perhaps you should try and understand an issue before judging others based on their opinions.

And because you seem to feel your opinion is more valid than mine then just keep voising those opinions but leave me out of them. I listened to all your opinions but just as you felt you disagreed with mine, i disagree with yours so learn to know when someone dissagrees and when someone ignores your points. Rather than accepting anything ive said or atleast acknowledging anything i said as somthing you agreed with you attacked what you didnt like me saying.

I never claimed that my opinion was more valid than yours, I simply stated that having a different opinion does not automatically invalidate the other's. If you go back and read any of my posts I always state that any player has the right to play PSU however they want. A difference of opinion is not an attack, it is simply a different perspective on an issue.

Oh and bringing in a conversation from another topic to enact some Damaging converstation to create a negative look of keilyn's person. Even if it were true people have bad days but it is not part of this discussion.

It was relevant as Keilyn tried to prove that I lacked experience. I simply disproved that point and countered with one of my own. The point stands that if Keilyn claims to be a good person and wants to help others then why is there a thread saying otherwise?

Face it that you cant stand to look bad or have people disagree with you. Try seeing someone else's point of view for a minute....and stop just attacking it. I was hoping to find some other players and see what they use, share experiances, maybe play together or learn some new pieces of equipment that could benefit either myself or another player. But once again i say it, im done, your opinions may hold value to you but when your opinions are about how my opinions are not good in some way, then im sure you can see why i dislike you and why i dont want to talk to you. so keep doing whatever, just leave me out of it for the second time.

If you intent was genuine, why begin a thread in such a negative fashion? If you begin a thread by debasing the indivuduals that have commented on your equipment, why would anyone want to comment on your equipment? You have already proven that you do not want this type of behavior.

I don't care if others disagree with me as long as they can support their claims. This entire issue is based on personal opinions so just as you are entitled to your view, I am entitled to mine. I apologize if I am able to state my opinion in a more eloquent manner or if I come off as overly aggressive but such is the nature of my opinion.

To be honest I rarely replied directly to your posts (only twice in fact) so most of the time my opinions were not even directed towards comments that you made. It does seem strange that you asked me to stop commenting even though I hardly directed my comments towards your opinion on the subject.

Anyway, my point stands that everyone has the right to play PSU in any manner that they want. Just don't expect everyone to understand the other's reasoning and agree with their playing styles.

[Frosty7645]

sigh* yay arguments