For the love of-- These buzzos are back again? Seriously?

[tfshadow]

Seems to be, but that's probably because it has the highest concentration of english players. If most of the English players left to whatever ship, they could easily follow. Nothing really stops them from doing this to any other ship.

[gigawuts]

Except the perpetrators aren't kids who don't know better, they're people who try to make and sell a product that breaks the game.

I don't think it's unreasonable to be mad at both.

I don't think it's unreasonable either, but people are always very quick to blame only the perpetrator and forget that it's Sega who is ultimately responsible for what happens in their game.

You can be mad at both, or you can be mad at just Sega, but don't be mad at just the people sending messages. Sega put a big red button in the game and all these guys are doing is pushing it. They might have to put in a lot of work to find the button, but it's still there because of Sega and Sega should know better by now.

[Daiyousei]

We should also stop making threads like this to give them attention, if they read this and know the attention they're getting.

Remember long ago when we stopped caring? They eventually died down. And then recently with the new players joining PSO2, they resurfaced and the new members start making threads about it.

[Skize]

I'd be willing to bet that PSO-hack isn't behind this, but rather a disgruntled person trying to smear them.

https://pso-hack.com/index.php?topic=1068.0

Wish that was true, but nope. It's legitimately from pso-hack hacking around, just to screw with people.

And you guys realize... That they don't care about it if you talk about them or not right? Just cause you said not to talk about doesn't mean it'll stop. It'll stop when SEGA stops them or they stop.

[Ouranos]

There's nobody else that will take this matter more seriously than Sega, obviously. But putting the blame on them is like putting the blame on the family who got robbed at their house for not installing 'enough' security. I mean nobody wants to get robbed, right?

Hacking requires effort and intent, nobody just 'accidentally' hacks a game. In my opinion, 100% of the blame should be put on the hackers, but that doesn't mean Sega shouldn't take any action to prevent this from happening.

I'm not defending Sega, I'm just saying.

[Shadowth117]

I don't think it's unreasonable either, but people are always very quick to blame only the perpetrator and forget that it's Sega who is ultimately responsible for what happens in their game.

You can be mad at both, or you can be mad at just Sega, but don't be mad at just the people sending messages. Sega put a big red button in the game and all these guys are doing is pushing it. They might have to put in a lot of work to find the button, but it's still there because of Sega and Sega should know better by now.

This so much. I don't understand why people want to act as if SEGA is innocent as far as security goes. The hackers are lame, but there's a reason you don't see crap like that in other games most of the time. And its not because you don't have morons like that trying to "test" their BS.

Edit:

There's nobody else that will take this matter more seriously than Sega, obviously. But putting the blame on them is like putting the blame on the family who got robbed at their house for not installing 'enough' security. I mean nobody wants to get robbed, right?

Hacking requires effort and intent, nobody just 'accidentally' hacks a game. In my opinion, 100% of the blame should be put on the hackers, but that doesn't mean Sega shouldn't take any action to prevent this from happening.

I'm not defending Sega, I'm just saying.

Its not really the same thing. Thing is, SEGA had to provide tools to let them do the shit they're doing in the first place. Keep in mind that they've been able to change positions of various objects that aren't normally movable through their client somehow and have also been able to send messages to people it isn't normally possible to message. These things are only possible because SEGA left the means to do them in the game. So its more like SEGA locked up their shop and left sticky notes around with login info for the main company email and its main accounts on social networking sites. Even if its bothersome that other people gained access to those, they should never have been just sitting around there in the first place.

[KatsuraJun]

To be fair, you do see crap like this in other games, and on a much larger scale with far more damaging effects than "I can't use the shop for a few minutes."

Try having an item drop in over 70% of it's value thanks to hackers exploiting a certain daily dungeon. Overnight.

It's like if Photon Spheres dropped to 5k tomorrow.

And no, it wasn't botting, though that usually ends up being a huge issue too. Incident in question had mobs in a certain room to drop infinite amounts of the item in question until it was told to stop.

And then there was those fuckers who hacked titles with ridiculous stats on them.

[Shadowth117]

To be fair, you do see crap like this in other games, and on a much larger scale with far more damaging effects than "I can't use the shop for a few minutes."

Try having an item drop in over 70% of it's value thanks to hackers exploiting a certain daily dungeon. Overnight.

It's like if Photon Spheres dropped to 5k tomorrow.

Exploits in the traditional meaning are an entirely unrelated subject generally with no relation to hacking. There WAS an exploit in this game like that where people were able to dupe items via the crafting system. It was almost immediately fixed of course. And that's probably the biggest economy related exploit ever to be in the game.

Edit: To clarify, an exploit is something that's doable in the game without changing things in the game with external programs. Its unintentional, but you don't need tools to do it because the programmers made a bad system.

Hacking would be accessing things in the game's memory and changing them real time. Some things are going to be allowed to happen if one can get to the point where they're editing memory easy enough. Like the player's position onscreen. Notice how I said "the" player. To change things related to other people or non-manipulable objects in the game, they would need separate commands in the game's code which, while not normally accessible, the server would accept if given them. If you don't have these commands in the first place, there's no way for this shit to happen. That is why I call SEGA stupid here and others should as well.

[KatsuraJun]

Exploits in the traditional meaning are an entirely unrelated subject generally with no relation to hacking. There WAS an exploit in this game like that where people were able to dupe items via the crafting system. It was almost immediately fixed of course. And that's probably the biggest economy related exploit ever to be in the game.

It wasn't an exploit in the sense of a bug, I used exploit in the sense of the verb "to take advantage of."

As in, since one could only run this dungeon a certain amount of times a day, it was difficult to overflow the market with it without buying slots for a dozen different characters and dedicating your entire day to farming it, but the hackers bypassed that limit and crashed the price making it impossible for legit players to make money.

Since it was on the (always poorly managed) english servers, had it BEEN an exploit in the sense of a bug, it would have been patched out ages ago before making it overseas.

Edit: To clarify, an exploit is something that's doable in the game without changing things in the game with external programs. Its unintentional, but you don't need tools to do it because the programmers made a bad system.

Hacking would be accessing things in the game's memory and changing them real time. Some things are going to be allowed to happen if one can get to the point where they're editing memory easy enough. Like the player's position onscreen. Notice how I said "the" player. To change things related to other people or non-manipulable objects in the game, they would need separate commands in the game's code which, while not normally accessible, the server would accept if given them. If you don't have these commands in the first place, there's no way for this shit to happen. That is why I call SEGA stupid here and others should as well.

Yes, I know what an exploit is, no it wasn't an exploit in that sense. There's more than one definition of the word, hence me saying "exploiting the dungeon" rather than "using an exploit in the dungeon." I'm not arguing that SEGA shouldn't step their game up, but singling them out isn't right either. For the most part, they've not let hackers destroy the economy yet, so there's that... I guess. I mean that's better than like 70% of the MMO's I've played. Saying "you don't see crap like this in other games" is completely false unless you've had the blessing of living in Korea playing well managed servers that actively try to combat hacking, botting and other unscrupulous activities.

Granted I've yet to have an MMO delete things off my hard drive until PSO2 though.

[Shadowth117]

Yes, I know what an exploit is, no it wasn't an exploit in that sense. There's more than one definition of the word.

Yes, I'm aware of that. So please use the correct one in context to avoid confusion.

Regardless, pretty sure we're arguing the same thing here in that its up to companies to fix shit in their game. Hackers have the blame they have, but they should be prepared for since they're bound to turn up regardless.