Force and Ranger Balancing

[Hansha]

Is this thread more about damage differences in combat or overall strength of the class? Forces are much better as support but still have great damage at the same time. Not only that, but they destroy Darker enemies and their weak points for free (Dark Ragne vs. Rafoie = lol). Also, best dodge in the game and it requires no skill points to improve? Elemental status effects are frequent in techs too. And most importantly, they have pretty/cool visuals on their spells.
The only reason the class isn't obviously better than Ranger is PP regen. Because of this, they feel closer to equal strength to me, at least in low levels. I can't imagine how much techs will improve at higher levels.

[Quatre52]

Eh, part of the problem some may run into, Forces aren't so much designed for over powering things as you could accomplish in PSU.
They've seemed to go a little more of the PSO style, which is designed for support of other classes...

What that means, the lower power of the force doesn't matter much, its made up with its ability to move and support.

[~Inu~]

The only reason the class isn't obviously better than Ranger is PP regen.

I just believe they'd need to lower the PP costs of base spells, and think about charging if people are worried charging base spells can really hold them back.
I didn't get too far into a force, so I can't really have a strong opinion about this discussion.
Force AoE was plenty powerful, it was more their base techs that couldn't really keep up with the ranger.
I think a little tweaking to the base techs would do good enough, maybe reduce PP cost and charge times a bit(and maybe a tad less charge damage?) and try to balance it with how much you'd get by by throwing cards (or smacking with a wand) vs how much damage a ranger can do constantly.
Forces have plenty more utility then just damage, but so do Rangers so I don't know what to say there... Eh.

[Spellbinder]

It certainly is a pity that they revised the skill trees, but there are a few points of note.

2 skills to increase maximum PP
1 skill that allows PP regeneration while charging
1 skill that reduces cost of lightning skills

Truth be told though, looking at the new version of the skill tree, some of the non-elemental boosting skills look poorly placed. For example, Photon Flare and Tech Defense placed under freeze ignition.

Just my opinion, but it'd make sense if there was a PP increase skill after Burn, Freeze, and Shock Boost, then each element had a branch that focused on charged techs, normal techs, etc. For example, go down the fire branch for Charged PP Revival and other charged tech enhancements, the ice branch for defense skills, then Lightning for PP conservation and normal tech enhancements. This way you'd choose an elemental branch to focus on based on what status effects and bonuses it gave.

Although I'm not too keen on Charged PP Revival and the other skills buried under elements, they should at least be orderly and make sense.

Edit: As mentioned above, I also agree on the PP issue of techniques. There was also a lot of dissatisfaction on the JP beta message board if memory serves right. People asking for regular techniques to maybe cost half of what they do now since they have no real appeal over charged techniques.

[BBYiffo]

Now I wonder why there isn't anything on the talent/skill tree for support magic in comparison to talents/skills that support more aggressive attacks.

Anyway in CBT I find I was just more useful at stunning mobs with my AOE attacks while everyone finishes them off. Now only if I can figure out an option to make my auto-lock select the next target... Maybe make my boss fights soo much easier with the free weak point hits.

I remember people saying Ranger was the most OP thing in CBT. Something about Jellen and some other shots making them do high damage.

[Stezan]

I don't know, it didn't ever feel as though PP was a problem for me as a Force, granted I only played the Closed Beta and the skill tree has changed. But in the CB, I kept the melee attack on the rod, filled its other three w/techs, and filled the subpallete with techs. I never strayed too far from enemies. Throw out a few techs to hold enemies in place and get Status effects, then go to town a bit with the rod. PP only really became an issue when I would spam foie on bosses, but it would refill as I needed to dodge, and worst case as others have mentioned, pull out a gunslash.

I think people incorrectly place Forces in the same range as Rangers when I think they belong closer to the frontlines. While frail, Mirage escape is an amazing dodge which doesn't need skill points to be awesome. Also the Ice-class techs seemed designed around flinch-and-attack based tactics since both Gi- and Ra- hit multiple times and have good hitstun, not to mention they both freeze. The only time this strategy doesn't hold true is bosses, but Fo have almost always been less equipped to fight bosses than the other classes in PSO/PSU (except maybe De Rol Le in PSO)

[Vent]

Except from non-charged techs being practically useless, I really don't think Forces are underpowered. I also don't find PP much of a problem, especially with the Charged PP Revival skill later on. You can get that as soon as level 15 with the revised skill trees in the Pre-Open Beta.

However, I do think they lowered the PP regeneration over time compared to CBT. Though it's kind of hard to confirm (especially now that the servers are down), but my feelings tells me it's regenerating more slowly. But even if this is true, the other classes get a downgrade as well.

Don't spend your PP just to hit a single mob is my tip. Let the hunters and rangers do that. Or start whacking it with your rod or gunslash. Also, if you really think Foie is weak, you really need to play the game again. Haha.

You can restore the first slot of your rod/talis to a normal attack by going to your action palette, selecting that slot and hitting the remove button (two kanjis) at the bottom of the window.

A question to the people who played ranger during Pre-OBT. How was launcher? It was ridiculously powerful in CBT. Did they change anything?

[Pilla]

Guys, not sure about you but when I equipped my gunslash + added a PA to it and then used my quick slots with techs...I was spamming so many skills it felt like I was a god hahaha. I wish I had recorded that part when I was learning how to actually play better, but basically I had RAbatra on key number 1, I'd shot maybe 2-3 times and then go crazy spamming skills. Granted, I had no idea what skills I was putting on my tree, I just selected ice techs since they are my favorite. I cannot WAIT to find a gun with tech on it so I can go even more crazy with that set-up, and I hope nothing gets changed about how I was able to gain my PP instantly almost using a gunslash as my main weapon, then using techs on the quick slots.

[soulpimpwizzurd]

Guys, not sure about you but when I equipped my gunslash + added a PA to it and then used my quick slots with techs...I was spamming so many skills it felt like I was a god hahaha. I wish I had recorded that part when I was learning how to actually play better, but basically I had RAbatra on key number 1, I'd shot maybe 2-3 times and then go crazy spamming skills. Granted, I had no idea what skills I was putting on my tree, I just selected ice techs since they are my favorite. I cannot WAIT to find a gun with tech on it so I can go even more crazy with that set-up, and I hope nothing gets changed about how I was able to gain my PP instantly almost using a gunslash as my main weapon, then using techs on the quick slots.

i imagine a good amount of forces will be making use of the bouquet rifle.

[BBYiffo]

I can see the gunslash working nicely for early game but then ends up lacking from tec later on... We just need a new tec based weapon really. Maybe something nice to go with our up close and personal aoe spamming.