My theory on where Character Unbalancing occured.

[cwTopCat]

For starters, why not just remove Scape Dolls and buff items from the NPC, and make healing items more expensive? This would make techers more useful in a party without having to adjust any of their offensive traits. The Masterforce would still be pitiful however.

Also, there should be an option to choose when to use a Scape Doll instead of having it done automatically. This would make Giresta more useful, even on a MF.

I ,also, think that they should make it so you can only carry 10 of each healling item max and change the rate that they heal by a %. Like monomates is 20%, dimate is 40%, and trimate is 100%. They should also give MF lvl 20 or 30 buffs. Then all techer types will be more wanted in parties, cuz they will be the only ones that can boost stats.

[BIGGIEstyle]

pics won't prove anything, pls record the whole De Ragnus fight from start to finish for each type then post the video. According to desturel's statement that techers got absolutely 'no boss killer' and 'nothing to take out any boss in the game', I would expect to see a fighter kills it at least twice faster than a techer, and I don't think that's expecting too much if anyone wants to prove his original statement that a techer has no chance to stand in its own against any boss in the game. Pls do it.

Autumn plays on a laptop that can't handle video capture progs while running PSU, if you'd like to find someone who can record her runs to idle through them with her, feel free to.

We could waste hours trying to convince you but it's clear from your response you're just a pigheaded jerk who like facilitating an argument he knows nothing about.

But if you're prepared to watch your side of this debate fall apart, find me a PC/PS2 player who has something to record her run with and we'll be MORE than happy to shut you up.

Oh, btw... She killed it FOUR TIMES faster as a FM. 1 Minute clear time in FM, 4 minutes in MF.

[mll]

And a newman fighter is STILL better than a cast/beast techer, due to how borked the ATP/TP scaling works.

A newman fighter is probably better than a newman techer too.
lol
You wonder if ST have any idea how crappy tech damage is, seriously how can they not know.

[autumn]

Alright HyperShot I took your little challenge because I'm kinda bored in PSU and needed something to do for a laugh. While this isn't exactly what you requested it should bring the point home pretty clear.

Character: Idalia T'Shanen F Newman
Idalia has been my main since I started PSU about 2 years ago. Up until a bit before the Mission Carnival Idalia was a pure techer, first FT then MF. I decided to switch to FM when I got tired of getting OHKO'd all the time in MF to see if it would be better even on a newman. And so it was. I will note here that my MF is only level 8 (although the stats gained per level in MF are almost negligable) while my FM is 20. And yes, boss was killed with nothing but nosdiga and jabroga.

Masterforce set-up:
Serafi-senba 30% Light
Har/Quick
Freeze/Resist
Psycho Wand 7/7
- Nosdiga 42
- Radiga 41
- Diga 42
- Gidiga 34 (for element % bonus)
Okarod 7/7
- Ramegid 42
- Megid 35
- Nosmegid 36
- Megiverse 13 (the last 2 for elemental % bonus)
Coni 9/9 (paired with resta/reverser wand)
- Radiga 41
- Diga 42
Delpi 4/10 (paired with resta/reverser wand)
- Ramegid 42
- Megid 35

Time at Boss


End Time


Fighmaster set-up:
Serafi-senba 30% Light
Orpa/Mind
Lumirous/Kaos Knight
Freeze/Resist
Mugunruk 0/10 32% and 36%
- Dus Majarra 50
Bil De Axe 5/10 36%
- Anga Jabroga 50
Okanoh 0/10 38%
- Anga Jabroga 50
Double Agito 2/10 36%
- Spiral Dance 42
Sweet Death 2/10 42%
- Gravity Dance 45

Time at Boss:


End Time:


A F newman, which is FAR better suited to teching then to melee clears this faster as a melee fighter then a techer. In addition to clearing the mission faster I also went through less scape dolls, healing items, and photon charges as a FM. I'm certain you'll come back to this with some sort of BS response though so I'm glad I enjoyed this because I probably wasted my time.


EDIT: Also to compare stats with all my equipment on:
Masterforce TP (with psycho wand and har/quick) 3135
Fighmaster ATP (with bil de axe and l/kk) 3416

[mll]

Wow, it nearly doubled your run time.

You should send that post off to ST, it sums up the whole damage problem nicely.

[Mewnie]

A newman fighter is probably better than a newman techer too.
lol
You wonder if ST have any idea how crappy tech damage is, seriously how can they not know.

They most likely know.

And don't care.

[Juza]

They should also give MF lvl 20 or 30 buffs.

As a WT, please note that I mean the following in only the most polite and respectful way:

Die in a satellite crashing into Palma.

*twitch* You're not stealing my slight usefulness to parties without a fight. >:|

[RemiusTA]

just what makes you think that any techer has to be on par with other class designed just for the most damage dealing in game? Why is it so hard to just accept the techer as is just like some of the most achieved and respected techers in the game?
There are some large creatures like Jarba for ex. that are as much pain in the behind to fighters as techers.

Even the most respected and achieved techers in this game have personally acknowledged that their class is severely crippled in more areas than any class should be.

I'm actually curious to see how bad techers are really in the actual game setup, prove it if you can, FF Vs. FT or FM Vs. MF with maxed out settings to see who drops De ragnus faster in Duel in the Ruins each on their own, fighter using Jabroga only and techer with Nosdiga, Nos balls or longbow. Just prove how much difference we are talking about, then I'll believe you.

....Are you mother fucking serious.

as if lvl31 Ra techs weren't making Gi techs useless already as claimed by someone else?

Do you fail to comprehend the sheer amount of ironic failure you output when you make stupid remarks like this?

Seriously, you're unraveling your OWN argument.

i think you have better chance to see Dizas or Rentis released than to hope for that to happen any time soon in future.

This is like the only thing anyone can actually relate with.


Seriously Hypershot-X, you don't know what your talking about. No matter how much you think you do, you do not. Please stop embarrassing yourself.


----

For starters, why not just remove Scape Dolls and buff items from the NPC, and make healing items more expensive? This would make techers more useful in a party without having to adjust any of their offensive traits. The Masterforce would still be pitiful however.

Also, there should be an option to choose when to use a Scape Doll instead of having it done automatically. This would make Giresta more useful, even on a MF.

Yes for scapedoll removal, no for everything else. Self-buffing items are useful in their own respects, but any proficient Fortetecher / Acrotecher is easily more useful than -ides. Prices dont really need to change either, except for perhaps a money sink.

They dont need to cripple the game to make techers better, they need to improve techers. Like i said, they already messed with one side of the equation, they dont need to screw with another -- making random changes to prices and gameplay mechanics that have nothing to do with techers really wont help the game.

On Hunters and Rangers defense, 20 Mates are acceptable. Soloing harder missions calls for tons of healing, and since Hunters/Rangers no longer have resta at their disposal to save their asses, mates are more than acceptable. The enemies in PSO couldn't combo or effeciently jump you from a distance, so since you take in way more damage in PSU, holding 60 types of mates is useful.


Although, i have no clue why Scapedolls are sold in shops on this game. They definately should be something you have to synth to obtain, not just buy in bulk. Giresta is still useful regardless, though.

Besides, i use Mates more than i use Resta on my own force. They're far quicker, and alot safer to use in the middle of battle than resta thanks to the lag. I only really use resta when i want to heal someone else in the party.


The support side of Forces really doesnt need any adjusting, only their ability to not suck in combat. As proven by autumn, a Female Newman Masterforce, the most POWERFUL and COMBAT-SPECIFIC type of force you can possibly have, loses to a Female Newman Fighmaster, the absolute WEAKEST type of Fighmaster you can have.

There is absolutely no way to justify that.



P.S. BTW Autumn, you should seriously send that report to Sonic Team, because it's actually quite pathetic how the results turned out.

The only reason they came out so closely is because she was a F Newman MF. If she was another race/sex, or if the Fighmaster was anything other than a newman, it would be even worse.

[mll]

Yes for scapedoll removal, no for everything else. Self-buffing items are useful in their own respects, but any proficient Fortetecher / Acrotecher is easily more useful than -ides. Prices dont really need to change either, except for perhaps a money sink.

They dont need to cripple the game to make techers better, they need to improve techers. Like i said, they already messed with one side of the equation, they dont need to screw with another -- making random changes to prices and gameplay mechanics that have nothing to do with techers really wont help the game.

On Hunters and Rangers defense, 20 Mates are acceptable. Soloing harder missions calls for tons of healing, and since Hunters/Rangers no longer have resta at their disposal to save their asses, mates are more than acceptable. The enemies in PSO couldn't combo or effeciently jump you from a distance, so since you take in way more damage in PSU, holding 60 types of mates is useful.


Although, i have no clue why Scapedolls are sold in shops on this game. They definately should be something you have to synth to obtain, not just buy in bulk. Giresta is still useful regardless, though.

The problem is that a Hunter / Ranger soloing a run can easily manage on the mates they find, you rarely have to buy mates. Then you can grab a GH-450 to drag your mate costs down even further. Also most enemies are dying in one / two combos (or a few shots from a laser cannon) so you just don't get hit that often.
It really does have a huge effect on the support side of techers.
When aoi started it was just so much easier to make money that the cost of mates (and consumables in general) became insignificant. AoI crippled a lot of game mechanics.

[desturel]

They most likely know.

And don't care.

I think everyone except Hypershot realizes this. Well, everyone who plays or has played techer seriously.