Bouncer Class Discussion

[Selphea]

Mediocre DPS, not usable on aerial targets because charging Strike Gust takes you out of the air. If you're not charging Strike Gust and not hitting shift action, you're doing about as much damage as a normal attack for 25 PP. If you're just using for the dodge, that is one hell of an expensive dodge, and not one that gets a lot of benefit from the TAJA.

Those are like, the two highest DPS non-Vinto PAs. If you think they're mediocre you shouldn't be using Jet Boots in the first place. Gear for Br main with 13* Katana instead. And yes they really are mediocre when comparing Gran Wave vs Guren, Strike Gust vs Sakura End. Even Kanran is a little bit ahead of Gale, but there literally is nothing better for Jet Boots PAs.

Dumping an arbitrary ability to get a 15% bonus is hardly even worthwhile except for Vinto. You get essentially no damage bonus over time since you had to invest animation time on the tech/PA, and you dump PP into the tech in the process. It's hassle for little to no net gain. Nothing about it flows together at all, either; you're not applying any combination of techniques, you're just hitting an arbitrary damage buff button.

I think you need to cast a tech to set Jet Boots element. If not you can do it uncharged. It's not too different from doing a basic attack into a PA which really is just as much of an arbitrary damage buff button for the JA window.

I'll give you that one in terms of the combo, but not the damage. It makes sense to drop out of Gale to shift action stun-- but it's uncharged Gust and doesn't do much damage anyway.

I do it charged, you can get away with it. Serious.

Vinto is far too narrow for that to be reliable in the first place, not to mention that your Vinto getting a TAJA on Vinto after a full Gale on the weakest of all mobs is not exactly essential (unless they added some system for rewarding overkill that I don't know about).

That's the old Zondeel - Vinto combo adapted for Vinto using the charged tech's element. If Ponthi9999 can do it, so can you!

But seriously, you don't cast offensive techs, you think Strike Gust and Gran Wave are low DPS, you think Vinto is too slow, you think Jet Boots sucks for boss fights and you keep talking about how Katana is easier (which it is). Just be a Braver main and problem solved IMHO. You won't even be missing Moment Gale when the title bonus is switched around and Kanran does 10% more damage with a nice Katana Combat Finish at the end.

[Gamemako]

Those are like, the two highest DPS non-Vinto PAs... If you think they're mediocre you shouldn't be using Jet Boots in the first place. Gear for Br main with 13* Katana instead. And yes they really are mediocre when comparing Gran Wave vs Guren, Strike Gust vs Sakura End. Even Kanran is a little bit ahead of Gale, but there literally is nothing better for Jet Boots PAs.

There are only 4 PAs, and 3 non-Vinto PAs. JB single-target DPS is not exceptional, and removing the ST leader (Vinto) doesn't do any favors. JBs are wonderful mobbing weapons, especially in a group where linked support effects help everyone in addition to the damage. Where I dare not throw my body around with katanas, the massive range and pull on Gale, combined with the elevation adjustment from Wave, the long invulnerability shift action, the stun drop on Gust, and the double jump make JBs quite useful. I just don't see a reason to rely on them all the time. It would be like trying to shove Chaos Riser in against bosses just because it's good and therefore must be used everywhere. I mean, I love that little cyclone to death, but the square peg does not fit in the round hole.

Obviously, I could always take the solution of using DBs for most bosses, and that works fine too. I can still have them on hand, and they're in my skill build insofar as they need to be (lol TCPBF cheese machine). Do I use them extensively? No, though I admit I haven't spent nearly as much time with them as I should. I'm also remarkably bad at them; I keep trying to use Heavenly Kite and Immortal Dove like I'm doing Rising Edge -> Twister Fall. I suppose I could also try out using gunslashes, which do get the 10% bonus for BO weapon collections, but I don't know them very well.

I think you need to cast a tech to set Jet Boots element. If not you can do it uncharged. It's not too different from doing a basic attack into a PA which really is just as much of an arbitrary damage buff button for the JA window.

Without Vinto removing the gear charge, I'm already set on element before I enter combat, and if I do once charge a tech to change to deal with different opponents, I do it once to set the element and not repeatedly before every attack.

The PP and time investment are hard to overcome for any real gain. If you invest 15 PP and 0.4 seconds to get the 15% damage buff, then your attack would need to cost 100 PP to be PP-efficient and last 2.67 seconds to be DPS-efficient. Sure, that's reduced by whatever damage your attack delivers, but it's pretty clear that the advantage in any case is likely to be very small unless that setup ability was already an efficient choice to begin with. The case where there's a clear advantage for TAJA setup is Vinto due to its long effective recharge time and cost.

But seriously, you don't cast offensive techs, you think Strike Gust and Gran Wave are low DPS, you think Vinto is too slow, you think Jet Boots sucks for boss fights and you keep talking about how Katana is easier (which it is). Just be a Braver main and problem solved IMHO. You won't even be missing Moment Gale when the title bonus is switched around and Kanran does 10% more damage with a nice Katana Combat Finish at the end.

With Elemental Stance, the need for rainbow sets means I'm going to use mostly crafted weapons in any case. I'm not using bows extensively for ranged damage, and BO-equippable Rikauteri is ideal for my purposes. A set of rainbow katanas necessarily means mostly non-13* ones. The upgrade cost is more than I can stomach in any case -- spending 10 million just to get the +40 and hundreds of hours to get 60 element is a headache I have no intention of subjecting myself to. Invade boots and element swap with my DEX mag is the perfect shortcut, 60 element and +10 out the gate with an awesomely useless potential I can ignore and still have a perfectly serviceable piece of equipment. No such luck for katanas, where I get a piece of equipment with a Dark element (same as other easily-obtained 13*). Much more feasible to have some Reds and Sanges and Yashas crafted up for the craft bonus.

When I compare BO and BR as main, I pretty much have the following:

BR main:
-10% katana bonus, 10% bow boost that's not quite so useful
-Maybe a 13* somewhere, of one element.
-Combat escape
-Counter wave buff
-49 R-ATK that's not quite so useful
->Mostly 10% katana damage, maybe 11% or so accounting for Counter Wave, 25% or so for Dark element only. Ain't even pretending I'll have an Austere any time soon, let alone a 60% Austere.

BO main
-10% JB and DB bonus
-Switch Strike
-JB Escape
-JB gear boost
-52 T-ATK from base stats
->Circa 25-30% boots damage once the accounting is done on the benefits, to all elements

[Selphea]

You don't tech offensively though - as you described, you just charge a tech at the start. And you don't seem too keen on making a rainbow set. Doesn't sound like Bo is working for you at all.

You can sub Hunter and rotate Combat Escape and Massive Hunter + Automate to throw yourself at mobs and get even more damage, then you can roll with a single Invade Katana which your Dex Mag will work great with. Only thing is Zanverse but honestly Jet Boots Bouncers are very common, you won't notice the loss.

Just pretend the extra damage from Fury Stance and title bonus is Shifta, and Flash Guard snd Automate are Deband.

[Gamemako]

Don't get me wrong, I do use offensive techs. My three palletes for BO/BR are JB with rainbow techs, katana/DB with support techs, and damage techs + bows + stances. What I don't do is try to shove one in before every PA. I can't stand around spamming offensive techs without a bow to recover PP; I'd be empty in 5 seconds with no normals to regen. When I use a tech, I do so for the purpose of having that tech's damage or effect.

I don't have the luxury of just hitting the same attack over and over. BO/BR bonuses are not uniquely focused to one attack or rotation. I am not a Banish Ilbarta FO/BR using one attack for every boss and just eating the 20-50% loss where enemies are not ideal. There is no reason for me to use the wrong tool for the job and just try to brute force it.

[Amatsukaze]

I think you'd like BO/HU way better.

There's no point in using techs offensively and PP management is easier since you don't need to string together as many PAs/Techs while worrying about DPS upkeep.
On top of this you can just use one PA over and over (probably Granwave) without worrying that you're not putting your combo to optimal use.

BO/FI is probably more stressful/rewarding than BO/HU, but in some situations BO/HU would probably feel more practical.

[Selphea]

Don't get me wrong, I do use offensive techs. My three palletes for BO/BR are JB with rainbow techs, katana/DB with support techs, and damage techs + bows + stances. What I don't do is try to shove one in before every PA. I can't stand around spamming offensive techs without a bow to recover PP; I'd be empty in 5 seconds with no normals to regen. When I use a tech, I do so for the purpose of having that tech's damage or effect.

I don't have the luxury of just hitting the same attack over and over. BO/BR bonuses are not uniquely focused to one attack or rotation. I am not a Banish Ilbarta FO/BR using one attack for every boss and just eating the 20-50% loss where enemies are not ideal. There is no reason for me to use the wrong tool for the job and just try to brute force it.

Sounds like your PP pool is too low or you didn't craft your techs TBH. IMO, for Jet Boots Bo, having 160 PP, one Efficient long range tech and one Concentrated high damage tech to use up close per element should fix that. It's not "brute force", you're simply handicapping yourself. You mentioned you don't do affixing, do you at least buy units with a PP soul and either Spirita or Flict, and craft your units for PP?

[Amatsukaze]

Hey guys I have a question about Strike Gust's shift key's just attack timing.

Is it just me or does the just attack disappear entirely sometimes when used?
I usually combo Strike Gust > Shift attack > Gran Wave > Shift attack, but I noticed that sometimes it doesn't work.

Check 0:29

Spoiler!

I don't think it's a timing issue, at the end of the video I even tested it to see when the just attack circle shows up and the timing seemed right.

[GoldenFalcon]

I don't think it's a timing issue, at the end of the video I even tested it to see when the just attack circle shows up and the timing seemed right.

If I were to guess, it's just a case of you right-clicking too soon which stops the circle from appearing

[Amatsukaze]

Maybe, but I've had cases where it doesn't even appear at all.
What's funny is that this never happens if the attack doesn't hit a target.

When the strike gust shift key attack hits something there are moments where I could swear the just attack circle doesn't appear.

No video proof of this atm though.

Edit: Just did a few tests and it feels like the timing on just attacking after the shift key varies.

I thought it had something to do with height of fall after strike gust or length in animation of the strike gust attack before the cancel, but it feels really random.
At some points I could just attack right off the bat almost and on other times I had to wait for a bit.

Also do jet boots have a tendency to proc two hits in a single normal kick?
Happens really often for me but when I kick once it procs two damage counters that actually registers the damage.

[Selphea]

Also do jet boots have a tendency to proc two hits in a single normal kick?
Happens really often for me but when I kick once it procs two damage counters that actually registers the damage.

Zanverse from Moment Gale?